Curse

Arkantos · Jul 27, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

What more do you want from her?

Communication (not necessarily about GW2, just communication in general). As Fenix has pointed out, wikipedia is not a discussion forum. She should be posting on fansites, especially ones ANet call elite, like guru and GWO.

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I would definitely not want to talk to us. We are bad company.

As I said, neither would I, but if it was my job to, I'd do it.

pumpkin pie · Jul 27, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

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Originally Posted by Vazze

I would definitely not want to talk to us. We are bad company.

That would mean not taking up the job in the first place

lololololol

Arduin · Jul 27, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Suzi

The one and only time I chatted with Gaile, I asked her about the massive lag the community was experiencing, to which she replied....we aren't aware of any lag issues, what do you mean?

What massive lag? I'm having no problems whatsoever.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Jul 27, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I dont feel like getting into the regina debate. Regardless of regina, however, if anyone mentions bringing gaile back I will crap kittens and shove them down your throat.

Talon one · Jul 27, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

in reply to the thread title, i was under the impression that they simply decided to move open betas closer to the actual release. for gw1 we had the first betas 1, 2 years before the actual release - but regina said something about the mmo market having changed over the years and that they don't want to do it like that anymore.

and on topic

with gaile it was quite obvious that she loves the game and loves the community. maybe anet felt it was wise to hire someone who has a broader perspective on things because she spends her free time checking out other games instead of browsing fan forums.
i agree though that actually enjoying to communicate with the community, even if half of them act like spoiled brats, sounds like one of the job requirements of a community manager

zwei2stein · Jul 27, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Communication (not necessarily about GW2, just communication in general). As Fenix has pointed out, wikipedia is not a discussion forum. She should be posting on fansites, especially ones ANet call elite, like guru and GWO.

I don't want her to post for sake of posting. I want her to post when she actually has something to say.

What do you suggest shes does when she does not have anything to say? Farming forums to raise ones postcounts is not how I imagine CM position. Nor do I want em to feed people with half truths that eventually backfire.

We all got tired of Gailes silly stuff. All it did was to make her look stupid, incompetent, and people angrier (especially if there was Serious Business thread ATM.).

Arkantos · Jul 27, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I don't want her to post for sake of posting. I want her to post when she actually has something to say.

What do you suggest shes does when she does not have anything to say? Farming forums to raise ones postcounts is not how I imagine CM position. Nor do I want em to feed people with half truths that eventually backfire.

We all got tired of Gailes silly stuff. All it did was to make her look stupid, incompetent, and people angrier (especially if there was Serious Business thread ATM.).

She's been on the job for about 4 months now, and she's said pretty much nothing. I don't want her to post for the sake of posting either, but at least if she did that it would show she's actually interested in communicating with us. In 4 months, you'd think she would have told us more information on whatever than she currently has. What's the point of having a CR if there's no information to give, or if the CR doesn't want to post on fansite forums? I don't want a CR for the sake of having a CR, I want a CR that actually does his/her job.

Yes, we did get tired of Gaile joking around in non serious threads while avoiding questions in serious threads, but at least she gave a crap and communicated with us, unlike Regina.

Fril Estelin · Jul 27, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

What do you suggest shes does when she does not have anything to say? Farming forums to raise ones postcounts is not how I imagine CM position. Nor do I want em to feed people with half truths that eventually backfire.

Take the example of the "mega mega lag ... error codes ... mAT is screwed" threads. I believe that Gaile would have posted something as fast as possible, it was even at times reassuring, giving us the feeling that (little) things are happening. Even if the communication chain was a bit broken (cf. mini polar bear), it was functioning.

Now, what do we have? Regina mostly intervenes on the wiki and I didn't feel her messages so helpful, some were even of the same "I'll check with the devs" tone that Gaile used (yet people feel that her "cool" will excuse everything, just because they didn't like Gaile maybe?). GWG and GWO are fanforums with very little relationship to the mothership, we're out there discussing and speculating (they could at least tell us exactly their reasoning behind not releasing information: so as to not loose their edge when other MMOs get out? because they only want GW2 to be near-perfect when released? they still don't know what to do exactly? etc.)

Silence is generally the cause of many bad things in social environments. MMOs are social games and, even if fundamentaly/technically it was not their core business, Anet did care a lot more about their community than most MMO companies. Now it really feels that they've taken a "slow u-turn" in terms of CR. I once wondered whether the huge and sometimes inappropriate/unfair flaming of Gaile played a role (in addition to her realising the amount of time and, most importantly, energy that she lost in the way she dealt with fanforums), but it doesn't matter anymore.

A few days ago I wanted to start a discussion on the topic of: what will happen of GWG when GW2 comes out? Will it be a traditionnal fanforum where fan discuss with other fans, share fan-info, trade stuff, while there's the "official" wiki where Anet people are allowed to talk? maybe the user-unfriendliness of the wiki for discussions means that there's less interaction and flaming?

CR is not a title, it's a job. It doesn't mean that you have to dedicate your life to the game and the community, but it means a lot to a lot of players. So lack of it will harm the game and the company in the long run. (and I'd like to insist that the community is BOTH PvE and PvP, and Anet should SERIOUSLY show their support for the "PvP part" of the community)

Xx_Sorin_xX · Jul 27, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

So why is Regina the CR again?

"I'm not sure what information you'd like, apart from write-ups / summaries of what happened at our panels, and an in-game chat is not the best vehicle for that by a long stretch."

Pretty sure Gaile tried her best to give as much of that info as she could. Wtb replacement CR.

wtf seriously. What the hell kind of statement is that? I'd think it'd be obvious from the millions of threads on here about GW2. We want just something. It doesn't matter really what kind of info. Just give us a little more every once in a while. Been a freaking year.

Our mistake for wanting to know more information than what we learned a year ago.

Giga_Gaia · Jul 27, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Isn't the reason why Anet is keeping quiet about GW2 is because another NCSoft game, Aion, is going to make its release pretty soon? I'm sure that once Aion is done and over with, NCSoft will be pushing Anet to release more info about GW2.

Now about the whole CR issue: I say Regina's doing fine. I thought that Gaile acted a bit too silly at times and wasn't really all that helpful. I prefer Regina's direct and straight forward approach when dealing with people.

Arkantos · Jul 27, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

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Now about the whole CR issue: I say Regina's doing fine. I thought that Gaile acted a bit too silly at times and wasn't really all that helpful. I prefer Regina's direct and straight forward approach when dealing with people.

If by doing fine you mean almost never visiting fansites and talking on wiki, I suppose she's doing fine.

Gaile did act silly, but guess what? She communicated with us. I prefer Regina's straight forward approach too. Now, if only she actually communicated with us...

Esan · Jul 27, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

CR is not a title, it's a job. ... it means a lot to a lot of players.

By "a lot", you mean a vocal segment of fansite forum posters, those whose egos have become too big for their pants.

It seems that you people want Regina to validate your existence. You are in denial about the futility of "discussions" on a fansite forum, and are frightened that no one at Anet is giving you the precious snowflake treatment any more. After how Gaile was treated, I doubt anyone at Anet is in a hurry to become the next community punching bag. Regina tells us what she is told to tell us---I hardly think she is hiding anything---and maintains a professional distance otherwise. Good on her.

MarlinBackna · Jul 27, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Looking at her journal in the wiki (which she does regularly update), I noticed a message about transparency. Here it is quoted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina

Transparency - 17 June 2008

One issue that was brought up in the community last week was transparency. Players want more transparency about what is going on at ArenaNet. Players want explanations for game changes. Explanations for game changes are found in our Dev Updates. I believe we have been addressing this desire for explanations about skill balance changes by publishing Dev Updates more frequently. Dev Updates reside on this wiki, and with these updates being housed here, there is a problem of visibility. To address this, we have been posting links to the more important Dev Updates to the News feed on the offcial website. Additionally, the Dev Updates are localized into several languages. We have been aiming at simultaneous worldwide publication of Dev Updates in multiple languages.

I am sure we can do more, and we are exploring options on what we can do to gather feedback intelligently. If you have suggestions, please leave a comment with a concise, bullet point summary of what you would like to see. Some suggestions I have spotted:

* A feedback form
* Official forums -- this is not likely to happen in the near future)
* Developers posting in the forums -- this is also not likely to happen in the immediate future, epecialy en masse. A move like this would require approval from particular people at ArenaNet and before that, a lot of discussion. Also, it would take developer time away from working on the game and raise expectations from the community for devs to maintain discussions in forums, and frankly, the priority for them is to work on the game.

A player suggested that I post weekly updates of exactly what the developers are working on. One of the issues with this is that most of those updates would read like this:

* The environment art team continued working on a region in Gw2.
* The programming team continued working on effects in GW2.
* The business development team continued working on contract negotiations for GW2.
* The writing team continued to work on quests and lore.
* Some new hires started this week.
* The QA team fixed some bugs in GW1 and you can read about them in the Game Update notes on the official website.

Week in and week out, you would have vague updates about what the various teams are working on in GW2, and honestly I would imagine that you would get completely frustrated by this. Working on a videogame is kind of like working on a Hollywood film set. There's very little we can talk about, and we have to get lots of permission from higher ups before we can think about sharing any single detail. Any potential leaks, like on a film set, could potentially jeopardize the project.

Although many of the developers do not maintain a visible presence on the forums or the wikis, they are out there, reading and discussing everything you have to say and as a team we all discuss these conversation threads and the issues you raise.

I am understanding about some of these statements, and angered by some as well. For starters, the development of GW2 is not the Manhattan Project. Although the competition is fierce in the MMO world, it doesn't kill people to give something, unlike the fact that we've received nothing about GW2 since it was announced and will not until 2009. But, I can understand the dev part, as we get random tech people all the time respond to bug issues that don't normally post. It's nice that they are taking suggestions, but it surely doesn't take that much deliberation in order to determine how to release GW2 info. A year and half before anything at all? It breaks my heart.

EDIT: Also, there is another topic like this, but it's in Dev Tracker. FYI

Giga_Gaia · Jul 27, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

I think of it this way Arkantos: it's better to shut up and let them think you're a fool, than to speak and let them know you're a fool (or something like that)

Arkantos · Jul 27, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

I think of it this way Arkantos: it's better to shut up and let them think you're a fool, than to speak and let them know you're a fool (or something like that)

Judging by everything she's told us (which isn't much), we already know she's a fool. By not saying anything, she's not taking the chance to let us know she knows what she's talking about. So, not only is she a fool, she's a fool doing a bad job at CR, which is worse than a fool.

zwei2stein · Jul 27, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

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Originally Posted by MarlinBackna

For starters, the development of GW2 is not the Manhattan Project.

No, it certainly is not, but you just can go around and be transparent. It screws projects up.

With each information given out they risk anyting in range from minor whining on forums all the way to actually dangerous stuff: ncsoft share price dropped by few cents.

Gmr Leon · Jul 27, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Copying and pasting my response from a thread similar to this on GWO.

Good thing you're not a fan of Valve titles. You get nearly nothing for months or a year from them. They release their game when they're satisfied, and if anything, that shows me a better way of doing things. All of the Valve titles I've played are very polished, very fun, and exciting. Of course, there are people like you who are fans that feel a bit uneasy at the lack of information.

Thing is, the Valve fans have more experience with this kind of information drought. Their patience is paid off each time though.

Doesn't fit precisely, I know, but it still applies to the situation being discussed in this thread.

Gun Pierson · Jul 27, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Some of you want Regina to communicate when there's actually something new to say. Well until GW2 there won't be much to talk about, so why does Anet have a CR?

I know more about the near future of GW1 by reading Lindsey's (the dev) page on the wiki than reading the one from Regina.

Replace her with another dev (focused on GW1). At least that way, there might be something to talk about in a year or so.

A community relation manager without communication is fail, no matter how you put it. I think the problem is more caused by Anet than Regina though.

When the discussion about the ways of communication was going on, I've send Regina a PM suggesting that an official forum might do the trick. No response. I had to look on that wiki to find out she actually thought about it, but that the thing was not likely going to happen in the near future. GG for Guru and other fansites. Only prob, it seems Anet doesn't post on forums anymore. Anet is posting in that wiki. Wiki is not a forum btw!

Clarissa F · Jul 27, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Glad I'm not as impatient as some here.

Anet shot themselves in the foot.

They should have kept quite about GW2 till next year.

Opps.

QFT. There would have been less QQ around here about info, if they had kept quiet. If they had come out, say, a month ago, or at E3, and said what they said a year ago, we'd have a lot less retards yelling about screenies and vids. Then it would seem like, "Wow, they're coming out with a new game in a year? Cool!"

As to Gaile, she was a vat of misinformation. She would say a certain practice or modification would never happen on Anet, only to have it happen a month later. She knew less about the game than a newbie in Pre-Searing, in some aspects. Maybe Regina is out there listening to people that are actually PLAYING the game, and not popping into the forums for her primary intel. Or maybe people should remember she has the little job of WORKING ON THE GAME. Anet aren't Blizzard. They have limited staff and can't be shelling out salary for a dedicated CR, only. One thing I do know. Soon after Regina popped in, they put in skill separation for pvp/pve. Gaile had it yelled at her for months. "I just don't see how we can manage that, guys."

Age · Jul 27, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Regina could be posting about problems like the lag that happened on friday night as there were tourney's going on>I don't think she know the importance of the information need to be on a fansite in an instanced like Gaile did as she goes back to beta and I can say the same for Martin from NCSoft where is he Alex Weeks was always on the boards as well.

Where is Martin and Regina I don't buy those who need to contact me get on my wiki talk page.This is not being a community rep you go to the players not them come to you.I have real life to and I Administate another fansite and visit others as well as checking up on Star Trek gaming news and related.If I were Billiard and Inde I would send an e-mail or write to Anet and NCSoft about this problem.